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Traveller-digest     Thursday, November 4 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1309<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: My website and a request<BR>
Re: Border Guards <BR>
RE: Border Guards<BR>
Equipment lists.<BR>
RE: Border Guards<BR>
Re: Wild blue claims was Re: Diplomacy - I don't<BR>
Re: Well-Regulated Militia and Intent<BR>
Re: Border Guards<BR>
Re: Wild blue claims<BR>
Re: Diplomacy - I don't have any....<BR>
Re: GT Starship gearheadedness (kinda long)<BR>
Constitutions : was re: Well-Regulated Militia and Intent <BR>
Re: Violent Outlet (Was Re: A Day of Peace)<BR>
Re: Violent Outlet (Was Re: A Day of Peace)<BR>
Re: Reprints?<BR>
SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Was something or other now Language!<BR>
A Well-Regulated Militia (new thread title)<BR>
Hanging more than once<BR>
Re: Islamic Observances in Interstellar Space <BR>
Re: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
Re: Wild blue claims<BR>
Re: OT Kiri's name<BR>
TCS List server set up on onelist<BR>
Dragon Magazine Archive<BR>
Re: Moslems in space...<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 16:24:04 -0600<BR>
From: Shimmergloom <shimmer@mhtc.net><BR>
Subject: Re: My website and a request<BR>
<BR>
I missed the first message.  what was the URL again?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
"Keven R. Pittsinger" wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > Once again, I would like to thank everyone for their input and comments on my website.<BR>
> > I confess I was unaware as to the numbers of people that are not using the current<BR>
> > generation of browsers - but the emails I've gotten we're very informative.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Feeling a bit out of my league, I spoke to a collegue (sp) of mine who is a<BR>
> > professional web designer, and he offered me some insights. So I would like to ask all<BR>
> > of you who have older browsers to try my site again (<BR>
> > www.truserve.com/~igor/traveller ) and let me know if you are able to use it, etc...<BR>
> ><BR>
> > For the record, I _believe_ that all you need now to few the site is the ability to<BR>
> > view tables. I've attached alt tags to all images, so they should work fine (I believe).<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Let me know.<BR>
><BR>
> Looks good to me with Netflake 4.51.<BR>
><BR>
> Keven<BR>
><BR>
> --<BR>
> tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
>                                                      Science-Fiction Adventure<BR>
>                                                      In Reavers' Deep<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------<BR>
"How much XP do we get if we join the bandits?"<BR>
<BR>
      Shimmer<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 14:36:18 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Border Guards <BR>
<BR>
> At 07:53 PM 11/3/99 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I can't remember who wrote this series of short stories (Niven maybe?) <BR>
> about an eclectic professor that helped the cops in some obscure <BR>
> investigation, but in that world they had a mind probe that could reliably <BR>
> tell whether someone was lying or not.  Police could compel it's use in a <BR>
> criminal investigation, but the law was that a person could only be <BR>
> subjected to it once in his lifetime (some sort of weird double jeopardy <BR>
> extension).<BR>
<BR>
Nope, the author was Isaac Asimov, the professor's name was IIRC Dr.<BR>
Wendell Urth or something similar.  Gods, I haven't read those stories in<BR>
25 years and I still remember bits of them. <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 14:42:26 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Border Guards<BR>
<BR>
>From: "David P. Summers"<BR>
<BR>
>IMO, Imperial right are the right to<BR>
>a trial before an impartial judge, the right to <BR>
>present evidence on your behalf, and the right to <BR>
>call witnesses on your behalf.<BR>
>Basically it will guarantee the rule of law over <BR>
>arbitrary action by individuals.<BR>
<BR>
No, I don't see any _guarantee_ of a _rule of law_ in<BR>
the Third Imperium.  I think that the Third Imperium<BR>
will try to establish some predictability of result in<BR>
order to facilitate interstellar commerce, but beyond<BR>
that, due process is just not the controlling concern.<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
Nobles will get more due process than ordinary<BR>
citizens; member states will get more due process than<BR>
ordinary citizens; megacorporations may or may not get<BR>
more due process than ordinary citizens.<BR>
<BR>
Remember that individual member states may grant more<BR>
due process to litigants in their jurisdiction than<BR>
the Imperium would, so forum selection is a big issue<BR>
for lawyers in The Far Future.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 16:46:45 -0600<BR>
From: Shimmergloom <shimmer@mhtc.net><BR>
Subject: Equipment lists.<BR>
<BR>
Anyone know where I can find a good long list of equipment for scifi games?<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------<BR>
"How much XP do we get if we join the bandits?"<BR>
<BR>
      Shimmer<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 15:06:00 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Border Guards<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Trevor, Peter" <BR>
<BR>
[I had written:]<BR>
>> The higher the law level, the greater the level of<BR>
>> governmental intrusion on personal affairs and the<BR>
>> greater the level of corruption.  <BR>
<BR>
[You responded:]<BR>
>I disagree with the link between high LL and <BR>
>corruption.  <BR>
<BR>
I was just stating canon; look at Book 3:  Worlds and<BR>
Adventures.  I don't have it in front of me, so can't<BR>
give page citation.  Law level is defined as the level<BR>
of intrusion and the level of corruption.<BR>
<BR>
That is probably not a good definition, which was the<BR>
gist of your criticism.  In real life, it often<BR>
doesn't work out that way.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 18:16:02 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Wild blue claims was Re: Diplomacy - I don't<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 11/4/99 8:29:03 AM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< The biggest victories of the American strategic bombing command<BR>
 were in the attrition of the German transportation networks (especially<BR>
 rolling stock) >><BR>
<BR>
Bingo! That's the key... THIS is what crippled the Wehrmacht in the west. I <BR>
can't tell you how many times I read about German units transiting to the <BR>
western front and regardless whether they roadmarched or used trains, they <BR>
REGULARLY lost half their vehicles and a quarter to a third of their <BR>
personnel. And this is before they even reached the front They also lost a <BR>
lot of time, sometimes taking 100% more time to arrive where they were <BR>
sent....I am no fan of Douhet, but arial bombardment has it's uses...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 18:16:39 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Well-Regulated Militia and Intent<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 11/4/99 8:29:42 AM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
scharlto@ifsna.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< Do we interpret this amendment based on<BR>
 intent or based on current opinions?'  For the record, I am<BR>
 firmly in the 'intent' camp and I strongly support the<BR>
 individual right concept. >><BR>
<BR>
I concur....<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 18:24:00 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Border Guards<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 11/4/99 8:43:56 AM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
Peter.Trevor@exchange.rb.cwplc.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<<  "... Anything you say may be taken down in  writing  and<BR>
     used in evidence against you.  Anything  you  don't  say<BR>
     but which you later rely on in  court  may  be  used  in<BR>
     evidence against you ..."<BR>
 <BR>
 The rational was that if you are innocent then you  have  nothing<BR>
 to hide.  This weakens non-self incrimination  rights,  and  even<BR>
 weakens "innocent until proven guilty"! >>><BR>
<BR>
jeez; that's scary.<BR>
<BR>
<<And  when  you  consider<BR>
 that UK and  US  politicians  regularly  meet  to  swap  ideas  I<BR>
 wouldn't be surprised if one day something similar happens in the<BR>
 US.   As  an  outside  observer  it  sometimes  seems   that   US<BR>
 politicians  find  the  US  Constitution  an  impediment  to   be<BR>
 circumvented rather than something they support.  (Oops,  getting<BR>
 dangerously OT here.) >><BR>
<BR>
Your 100% right, though I will fight this literally to the death....<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 18:30:13 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Wild blue claims<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 11/4/99 10:23:34 AM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
cberry@cinenet.net writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< Desert Storm provides a somewhat better model for how air and ground<BR>
 forces complement one another.  The prolonged air campaign left the allies<BR>
 with total air superiority, and also (and this is critical) seriously<BR>
 damaged the Iraqi C3I and supply infrastructure.  This weakened the Iraqi<BR>
 military to the point that when the ground attack came, victory was swift<BR>
 and relatively bloodless (compared to most predictions). >><BR>
<BR>
of course the lack of cover and camoflauge in the desert, as opposed to say <BR>
the jungle or forest helped enormously...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 17:52:13 -0500<BR>
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Diplomacy - I don't have any....<BR>
<BR>
>At 10:21 AM 11/3/99 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>>Okay Leonard, I forgot you were on here to correct everyone.  The<BR>
>old game<BR>
>>has been released into "Public Domain" and is available for *FREE*<BR>
>to those<BR>
>>who want it. Where I come from that's called *FREEWARE*.....  All<BR>
>*FREEWARE*<BR>
>>I've seen, the copyright holder retains possession and has just<BR>
>given<BR>
><BR>
>	If it's been released into the public domain, the "copyright holder"<BR>
>holds *nothing* ... there *is* no copyright on public domain. That's<BR>
>why there is a distinction between public domain and freeware.<BR>
<BR>
I've seen, probably on an EduCorp "shareware disk", a version of Monopoly<BR>
labelled "public domain". This is obvious nonsense, because Parker Brothers<BR>
owns the copyright and has _not_ released monopoly into the public domain.<BR>
The fact that the author of the program released his code into the public<BR>
domain doesn't make his violating of Parker Brothers' copyright legal.<BR>
Which I think was the point Leonard was trying to make.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 18:17:11 -0500<BR>
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: GT Starship gearheadedness (kinda long)<BR>
<BR>
>As far as I can tell, it requires no crew stations -- as a hull weapon, it's<BR>
>fired from the bridge by the chief gunner or pilot (as per GT pg. 150). What<BR>
>am I missing here?<BR>
<BR>
This was one of the things IDed as a fairly significant change from the way<BR>
CT handled starships, in that spinal weapons in CT required larger crews.<BR>
<BR>
I think crew requirements for spinal weapons may be changing with GT<BR>
Starships. Chris can provide more details (as he's the author).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 10:55:39 +1000<BR>
From: dadams@parracity.nsw.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Constitutions : was re: Well-Regulated Militia and Intent <BR>
<BR>
scharlto@ifsna.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>><BR>
Hoping to avoid another 2nd Amendment flame war and to bring<BR>
this back to Traveller: The Imperium does not have aConstitution,<BR>
but it has 'Founding Declarations' of some sort -establishing<BR>
the Moot and other conventions of Imperial<BR>
Structure.  The Imperium is also heavily bound by non-written<BR>
tradition (The Right of Assassination, forex).  Are these things<BR>
interpreted against 'modern' opinion, or are they interpreted<BR>
based on the original intent?  The Right of Assassination seems<BR>
to be a developed tradition that appears well after the Imperium<BR>
is founded, but it could actually just be an old (Empire of<BR>
Man?) tradition that has resurfaced.<BR>
<<<<BR>
<BR>
I would have the 3I share the same constitution as the United Kingdom, that each<BR>
legislation passed forms part of the constitution.<BR>
<BR>
The Moot is only a consultative body, any real power would be via convention,<BR>
not codified. "But we always had the right to do X" type arguments. The Emporer<BR>
has the power to issue an Imperial Order to dispand it at any time (to do so,<BR>
however would be political suicide).<BR>
<BR>
This is an interesting point, what is the real, explicit and implided powers of<BR>
the Emporer, Dukes, Nobles, Moot, Beuros, Military and others. Could a Planetary<BR>
Noble use '1975 Reserve Powers' to dismiss a duely elected planetary government<BR>
who's polacy is anti imperium? Can A planetary govenment appeal to a subsector<BR>
or sector duke for an appeal aginst a unfavorable desision? Is the Moot or<BR>
Emperor the final level of appeal?<BR>
<BR>
Darryl<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 23:44:00 +0000<BR>
From: Mark Watson <markw@antares.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Violent Outlet (Was Re: A Day of Peace)<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 04 Nov 1999, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>"Could I have a napkin, please" in a restaraunt, for example. :-)<BR>
><BR>
... would get you a (table) napkin. A diaper in the UK is a nappy. The<BR>
derivation of nappy is from napkin but nappy is always (in my experience,<BR>
and I have 2 kids) used. <BR>
- -- <BR>
Mark Watson, markw@antares.demon.co.uk<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 23:49:59 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Violent Outlet (Was Re: A Day of Peace)<BR>
<BR>
At 12:03 -0500 4/11/99, Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>  wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > In the US, napkins are the things you wipe your hands and face with<BR>
> > (aka serviettes(sp)). Diapers are what you put on a baby's bottom.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > And (for our British list members), "knock up" means "make pregnant"<BR>
> > and "fanny" is a synonym for "butt", not for "vagina".<BR>
> ><BR>
>What does "knock up" mean in Britain?<BR>
<BR>
"Knock up" can be taken in the same context as the US. It can also be <BR>
used to describe calling around for someone on the off chance that <BR>
they are in (or at least, that's how it was used locally when I was a <BR>
lad).<BR>
<BR>
Nappie = Diaper<BR>
Napkin = serviette.<BR>
Hankie = Hankerchief = for blowing one's nose on or mopping one's brow.<BR>
<BR>
>a rubber he could use.  (HK people use British English; "rubber" there is<BR>
>"eraser" here.  "Rubber" here is "condom.")<BR>
<BR>
"Rubber" is generally taken as eraser, although the US version <BR>
humours schoolkids.<BR>
<BR>
> > "Could I have a napkin, please" in a restaraunt, for example. :-)<BR>
<BR>
Which would get you a serviette....<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
                        MiB - Marines in Battledress<BR>
    "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"<BR>
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 23:57:30 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Reprints?<BR>
<BR>
At 15:17 -0500 4/11/99, "Sword Worlder" <swordworlder@clinic.net> wrote:<BR>
>Marc said that he is expecting the reprints to hit stores just after the<BR>
>first of the year.  He is preparing a new web site for Traveller on which he<BR>
>has a link to the Collector Edition information.  He said that we will be<BR>
>able to purchase directly from him on the site.  I have seen the "beta" of<BR>
>the new web site and it looks really decent, much better than his current<BR>
>SFRPG and GDW pages.  He is not quite ready to launch, but it won't be long,<BR>
>now.  He will make a formal announcement on launch day.  The last estimate I<BR>
>heard from him was the fifteenth of this month.<BR>
<BR>
The new site looks a lot better - as we've been requested, a link <BR>
from the BITS site will be arriving, probably this weekend. The <BR>
current link hits the old site.<BR>
<BR>
Dom (BITS Webmaster)<BR>
<BR>
- -------------Dom Mooney---webmaster@bits.org.uk----------------<BR>
                  BITS - British Isles Traveller Support.<BR>
  http://www.bits.org.uk/              mailto:bits@bits.org.uk<BR>
Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
GURPS is a registered trademark of Steve Jackson Games, Inc.<BR>
BITS and CORE are trademarks of BITS UK Limited.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 10:06:05 +1100 <BR>
From: "Hughes, Michael" <Michael.Hughes@cbr.defence.gov.au><BR>
Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Was something or other now Language!<BR>
<BR>
And the perils of speaking the "same language" strikes again!<BR>
In the US, napkins are the things you wipe your hands and face with (aka<BR>
serviettes(sp)). Diapers are what you put on a baby's bottom.<BR>
And (for our British list members), "knock up" means "make pregnant" and<BR>
"fanny" is a synonym for "butt", not for "vagina".<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- - -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
It made that line from the Nanny 'and she fell on her fanny...' particularly<BR>
amusing to us queen's English folks.<BR>
<BR>
Ob Trav; Even though Galangic is standardized and has suffered much less<BR>
drift thanks to high tech, some words are bound to fall victim to the curse<BR>
of different meanings. Oh what larks a GM could have with a PC using an out<BR>
of date dialect translator . . .<BR>
<BR>
In RL, just look at NZ. They need some serious sub-title help (no offence to<BR>
our ANZAC brethren) thanks to their habit of "E" = "I".<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Michael <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 16:19:04 -0800<BR>
From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org><BR>
Subject: A Well-Regulated Militia (new thread title)<BR>
<BR>
When I was young, I took the "well-regulated militia" bit of the Second<BR>
Amendment to be redundant with the National Guard.  Then I learned some<BR>
more history, which put a whole different spin on that amendment and<BR>
actually changed my stance on gun control:<BR>
<BR>
First, at the time, the newly-minted United States didn't have a standing<BR>
army.  There was, in fact, a fair amount of sentiment AGAINST the concept.<BR>
So the theory was that whenever there was need, the able-bodied men would<BR>
pick up their rifles, go out and do what had to be done, and then return<BR>
home and go back to their lives.  Switzerland still seems to operate on<BR>
this concept.  The militia IS the army.<BR>
<BR>
Imagine if we had no Army, just the National Guard, period.  (Well, then we<BR>
wouldn't be the Policeman of the World, just like back in Teddy Roosevelt's<BR>
time.  Duh.)<BR>
<BR>
Second, and part of the reason the people didn't want an army (hint:<BR>
military coup), was that they'd just fought a war to free themselves from<BR>
one unpopular government.  The right to bear arms was, as far as I can<BR>
tell, intended to be a guarantee that if the citizenry got sufficiently fed<BR>
up with the new government, they could get together and overthrow it too.<BR>
<BR>
For obvious reasons, this interpretation is not appreciated by those who<BR>
are currently in charge, but it's very popular among the various "militias"<BR>
with an axe to grind about the gummint.  Also, the balance has changed a<BR>
bit:  no longer can you count on both sides having the same kind of weapons...<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav:  I dunno... a world where after every (quite peaceable) election,<BR>
the outgoing politicians are ceremonially escorted from their offices by<BR>
armed members of the populace?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --------------<BR>
Kelly St.Clair   "The Jigglypuff's trilling seems to have a <BR>
kellys@efn.org    tranquilizing effect on the human nervous system.<BR>
                  Fortunately, I am... immune..."<BR>
                            -- Mr. Spock, THE TROUBLE WITH POKEMON<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 11:24:30 +1000<BR>
From: dadams@parracity.nsw.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Hanging more than once<BR>
<BR>
>>><BR>
Piper's writings on colonial laws was fairly interesting as well.  In 'Little<BR>
Fuzzy', one guy remarked that they could only execute him once, and the other<BR>
guy said, 'Well in <legal cite that escapes me at the moment>, they shot the guy<BR>
dead, *then* hung him'.  Interesting...<BR>
<<<<<BR>
<BR>
In Lous McMasters Bujold 'Komarr' , they talk about "Lord Vor-something, the<BR>
twice hung", where the crime he did (not mentioned) warrented the lord in<BR>
question to be executed twice.<BR>
<BR>
(I allways thought Barrayan politics and law was a hoot, with Lord Midnight the<BR>
horse, who always voted "Neigh", the incenderary cat plot, the horse shit war as<BR>
well as less fun stuff liek Mad Yuri's war, and the defenstration of the privy<BR>
council).<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: a planet has an obscure legeal precident, based on actions done a few<BR>
centuries ago, yet has to be observed. This could be a Horse who is a reconised<BR>
member of the privy council, or the multible execution rule.<BR>
<BR>
Darryl<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 16:59:29 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Islamic Observances in Interstellar Space <BR>
<BR>
>From: "Douglas E. Berry"<BR>
<gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
>In 2300AD, a Saudi colony had a chip of the stone in <BR>
>Mecca (name has gone right out of my head) <BR>
<BR>
Kaba'a? or something like that.  Sir Richard Burton<BR>
disguised himself as a pilgrim and did the haj all the<BR>
way to Mecca at a time when no white man would be<BR>
believed to be a Moslem.  Once there, he charmed the<BR>
guards to let him inside the shrine that surrounds the<BR>
stone itself, and he took measurements and made<BR>
drawings.  That could make a cool Traveller adventure.<BR>
<BR>
One thought I have about religions in space -- or<BR>
religions in general, anyway -- is that some religions<BR>
are primarily about what one does and others are<BR>
primarily about what one believes.  I think that in<BR>
general, religions that focus on belief are easier to<BR>
transport off-planet.  To the extent that that is<BR>
true, religions may change to focus more on the<BR>
portable parts, the belief systems, rather than on the<BR>
rituals.  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 20:14:37 -0500<BR>
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
<BR>
At 09:24 AM 11/4/99 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>Kristian Miller writes:<BR>
><BR>
>> Actually, the National Guard and Reserves didn't come into<BR>
existence<BR>
>> until over 100 years after the Constitution and Bill of Rights<BR>
were<BR>
>> written.  The Bill of Rights was tacked onto the Constitution<BR>
years<BR>
>> after the states rights were set out in the Constitution in order<BR>
to<BR>
>> preserve certain individual rights and limit the power of the<BR>
federal<BR>
>> government.<BR>
><BR>
>Whu... um, the Bill of Rights was passed concurrently with the<BR>
Constitution. <BR>
<BR>
	Nope. The Constitution was passed in 1787 with the understanding<BR>
that a Bill of Rights would be added. The first ten amendments were<BR>
passed in 1791.<BR>
<BR>
- -- The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights,<BR>
   shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained<BR>
   by the people.<BR>
   -- Amendment IX, US Constitution<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 10:11:28 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Wild blue claims<BR>
<BR>
> From: Craig Berry <BR>
> There's more to "field[ing] an effective army" than producing a lot of<BR>
> tanks, arms, and ammo.  <BR>
<BR>
The Soviets had a lot of problems along these lines in 1941.  They had more<BR>
tanks than every other country in the world combined, and most of their<BR>
tanks were still fairly effective, that is, not obselete by 1941 standards,<BR>
but they had no spare parts.  The result was that equipment that broke down<BR>
couldn't be repaired, and mostly had to be abandoned.  By the end of '41<BR>
they were down to about 3000 tanks, out of an initial fleet of 30000.  The<BR>
Germans were down to about 300 effectives, out of an initial 3000 or so.<BR>
<BR>
This situation arose largely because the economic planning mechanisms they<BR>
used rewarded the production of complete tanks, but not parts.  I'm not<BR>
sure they ever really got around this problem.<BR>
<BR>
Other stuff around this topic:<BR>
Australia wasn't bombed much during WWII, but by 1944 its economy was in<BR>
desperate shape.  Since the US was bearing the brunt of the war in the<BR>
Pacific then, about half the Australian armed forces were demobilised, in<BR>
order to rebuild the economy.  As an example of the economic chaos, the<BR>
railways/railroads in Queensland had to be pretty much rebuilt after the<BR>
war, as the locomotives, rolling stock, track and so on had been run into<BR>
the ground, with little maintenance having been possible.  (My grandfather<BR>
was a rail worker during the war.)<BR>
<BR>
A thought:  does anyone know much about the role the Chinese played in<BR>
WWII?  How much of the Japanese military did they keep busy, compared to<BR>
the amount fighting everyone else?  If you want a huge military force built<BR>
on minimal resources, the Chinese might be the people to look at in this<BR>
period.<BR>
<BR>
Another thought:  The second bloodiest war in history (after WWII) was the<BR>
Taiping Rebellion in China in the 19th century.  (I've fouled up the<BR>
Romanisation of "Taiping", of course).<BR>
<BR>
OBTRAVs:<BR>
(1)  When fighting the Vargr, keep a close eye on your supply lines.<BR>
<BR>
(2)  Civil wars on hi-pop worlds can be quite as nasty as small<BR>
interstellar wars.<BR>
<BR>
(3)  The Solomani might have had problems sustaining their war effort in<BR>
the Rebellion.  In particular, worlds like those in the Near Bootes Cluster<BR>
might have experienced huge economic dislocation.  This might, in time,<BR>
tend to limit their enthusiasm for the war.<BR>
<BR>
(4)  General problems of production and supply in wartime.  <BR>
<BR>
(5)  In situations like the Frontier Wars, the worlds close to the action<BR>
would go onto a war economy footing, but it seems unlikely that the rest of<BR>
the Imperium would.  Basically, the Imperium would usually fights its wars<BR>
with one arm tied behind its back.  The Rebellion, of course, is the great<BR>
exception, but even there, many worlds would probably have tried to avoid<BR>
it, or the change would not have occurred until several years into the war.<BR>
 The chaos caused by the militarisation of the economy might have<BR>
contributed to the Hard Times, as civilian facilities get pushed lower and<BR>
lower on the repair priority list, and so on.<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 02:22:27 GMT<BR>
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)<BR>
Subject: Re: OT Kiri's name<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 3 Nov 1999 22:49:31 -0600, "Joseph R. Dietrich"<BR>
<yikes@evansville.net> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>>>Kiri  =)  not Keri, Kerry or Carrie<BR>
>>><BR>
>><BR>
>>So how is your name pronounced?<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>Well, it's spelled "Smith" but it's pronounced "Throat-wobbler-mangrove."<BR>
><BR>
**SPLOORT** Well someone finally ruined MY keyboard!<BR>
<BR>
================================================================================<BR>
- - Jeff Peterson                                             j_pete@bellsouth.net<BR>
<BR>
"To be prepared for war is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace."<BR>
                                                    -George Washington<BR>
<BR>
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833<BR>
GCS V 3.12 d- s:+: a- C+++ UH++$ P-- L+ E-- W++ N++ o-- K- w++++(---)$ !O M-- V-<BR>
PS-- PE++ Y+ PGP t+ 5++ X+ R+ tv+ b+++ DI++ D++ G e+ h--- r+++ y+++<BR>
NOG #74  AirStar Nova 700<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 02:30:31 -0000<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: TCS List server set up on onelist<BR>
<BR>
I have set up a onelist site for the game. Use the following link to<BR>
subscribe.<BR>
<BR>
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Trillion<BR>
<BR>
This should make life easier for players and lurkers alike to establish the<BR>
ground rules / post comments / news updates etc.<BR>
<BR>
All the best,<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
Matthew Bond<BR>
mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk<BR>
www.akira.swinternet.co.uk/strom.html<BR>
- --------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
"To strike a man who insults you is one thing...<BR>
...To run him through with a sword is quite another!"<BR>
- --------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 21:32:47 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Dragon Magazine Archive<BR>
<BR>
I just picked up the Dragon Magazine Archive, and I was wondering if any<BR>
fellow Travellers might have bookmarked the Traveller articles. If it turns<BR>
out that nobody has done it, I'll make my Trav bookmarks available on my<BR>
webpage eventually.<BR>
<BR>
Damn, having 250 issues of the Dragon is going to take up so much of my<BR>
time.<BR>
<BR>
Now I get to read "Wormy" in its entirety! Not to mention "What's New?"!<BR>
Then there's all of the great old ads (Whatever happened to the Dragonbone,<BR>
anyway).<BR>
<BR>
[Please, don't direct any flames my way for buying such a controversial<BR>
product. The historical value was too great for me to pass up.]<BR>
<BR>
Chris (...who is grooving because he's finally got access to all of Erol<BR>
Otus's Dragon artwork...) Seamans<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 21:36:41 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Moslems in space...<BR>
<BR>
Question: Does anybody know who the guy was who did the series of<BR>
proto-Cyberpunk books set in the Middle East? I can't remember his name, but<BR>
I remember that a rather enjoyable computer game was based on his stuff.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1309<BR>
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